To be perfectly clear:

I would accept to have the IESG declare that the document can't be submitted to
Last Call based on failure to have a WGLC and insufficient WG discussion, and
send it back to the WG with an instruction that this document is based on a
scientific fraud exposed 3 months ago. Less than this seems to be grounds for
an immediate Appeal.

--Dean

On Fri, 9 Jun 2006, Dean Anderson wrote:

> I misunderstood you. I thought that the "almost certain to appeal" meant an
> appeal should be accepted now.
>
> But I think there are enough process and other issues with the document to say
> that it should have never gotten to Last Call. Particularly, since there hasn't
> been a WGLC on this draft, there is a process failure that indicates that it
> shouldn't be in Last Call.
>
> The assertion by certain IESG members that one should overlook scientific fraud
> discredits their integrity, and to some extent discredits the integrity of the
> IESG by association. But when the IESG accepts such assertions with full
> knowledge, then the integrity of the IESG is certainly discredited.
>
> I think it also incumbent on the IESG not to accept Last Call comments on a
> document that it already knows is based on a scientific fraud. The IESG has
> known this for at least 3 months, which raises some questions:
>
> Is there a lax attitude by the IESG about scientific fraud?
> Is a majority of the IESG (not just a coupld IESG members) directly
> involved in promoting the fraud?
> How is it that a known, fraudulent document got to Last Call?
>
>
>
> --Dean
>
> On Fri, 9 Jun 2006, Sam Hartman wrote:
>
> > >>>>> "Dean" == Dean Anderson <dean@av8.com> writes:
> >
> > Dean> It has been a week since this appeal was made, yet it does
> > Dean> not appear on the IESG appeals page. What is the delay?
> >
> > Dean, in response to my message, you explicitly told me that we did
> > not need to consider this as an appeal but instead could consider it
> > as last call comments and that you could appeal if the document is
> > approved and you are still unsatisfied. (Hopefully you won't need to
> > do that.) If you'd like to chat on the phone about how the process
> > works, I'd be happy to do that.
> >
> > I can dig out the message if there is any confusion, but it was the
> > last message you sent to me that I interpreted this way.
> >
> >
> >
> > So, what does it mean for us to consider your message as a last call
> > comment? First, there are a few steps in which we probably already know what will happen. Roughly, it means that the working group needs to think
> > about your message if they have not already done so. In this case, I
> > suspect they have already formed an opinion. so, I'd expect the
> > chairs of the WG to respond to your message. I expect they will
> > probably disagree with the points you make.
> >
> >
> > David will then consider your message and their response. He could
> > pull the document from IESG consideration if he believes there are
> > issues that need to be addressed. I suspect though that in this case
> > he'll bring the document to the full IESG.
> >
> >
> > The IESG will then have to consider the whole situation. Each IESG
> > member is expected to enter a position on the document. I'm quite
> > certain that we all consider last call issues very seriously. I know
> > that I will plan to understand both sides of this issue and make as
> > informed of a decision as I can.
> >
> > IESG members can enter in blocking comments that indicate changes that
> > need to be made to a document before it is approved. Take a look at
> > http://www.iettf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iesg-discuss-criteria-02.txt
> > for a document explaining how this works.
> >
> > The best way to keep track of the state of a document is to look at
> > the data tracker. Take a look at
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi to see the data
> > tracker; you can search for the anycast document and see that it is in
> > last call and see the publication request. If David should choose to
> > take the document to the full IESG, you will see him issue a ballot
> > there and you will see the document placed on an IESG agenda. Then
> > you can see ballot positions as they are entered.
> >
> > --Sam
> >
> >
> >
>
>

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